MARY LOUISE KELLY, HOST:
What is the role of Congress as this whole Venezuela situation unfolds? Senior members of the Trump administration are on Capitol Hill today to brief lawmakers. Senator Mark Warner of Virginia is among those asking questions. He's the top Democrat on the Intelligence Committee. We have him on the line from Capitol Hill. Senator, Happy New Year. Good to speak with you.
MARK WARNER: Thank you, Mary Louise. Happy New Year to you as well.
KELLY: Chairman of the joint chiefs, the attorney general, the CIA director, defense secretary all briefing Congress today. What do you want to know?
WARNER: Well, first of all, I do want to acknowledge that getting Maduro out of the government of Venezuela - he was a bad guy, and candidly, we should have worked more strongly with the Venezuelan people when they voted overwhelmingly against him in 2024. But that still begs the question of what next? You know, the president says we're going to run Venezuela. For how long? How? If we're going to do it literally with troops on the ground or somehow with simply a fleet threatening offshore? I've got questions about how we got here in terms of the intelligence community's role. I want to get clarification on that. I, of course, won't be able to share that, but I want to get that information.
And then, you know, we have heard this theory before that we're going to come into a country, i.e., Iraq, and they're going to pay for - the Iraqi oil will pay for the whole occupation. And it appears that the president's making the same claim about Venezuelan oil. How is that going to take place? I mean, the Venezuelan oil fields that used to produce 4 million barrels a day, they're now down to 1 million. Everything I've read has said that it would take two to three years to get those back operational back to previous levels. Are we there for that long a time?
KELLY: So you have questions about the budget and who's going to pay for this? Go on.
WARNER: The budget on this. And finally, just, you know, on a broader basis, you know, the enormous precedent this sets if, suddenly, we can go in and snatch a leader if they have violated our law. What would then stop Putin using that same theory of the case to take out Zelenskyy from Kyiv, or what would stop President Xi from taking Taiwan since Chinese law has said that Taiwan is simply a breakaway province?
KELLY: I mean, you're raising a very big-picture question about the global order shifting as we speak. What's the answer to that question? If the U.S. claims the Western Hemisphere, why wouldn't Russia be free to do the same in Europe?
WARNER: That's why I'm going to ask the question. If you follow the logic, there would not be any preclusion. And let's - I think, you know, for the last 70-plus years - basically, since the 60s - I think America - it didn't matter whether it was a Democratic or Republican administration - has tried to build a new kind of arrangement with Central America and South America where we looked at those countries as partners. I've always been interested - I was an exchange student in Argentina. I'm fascinated with the region. I think we've treated them, frankly, badly, year in and year out. Benign neglect. But the notion that we're kind of reintroducing a colonial/imperial sphere of influence towards everything in the Western Hemisphere, that seems to go against everything over the last 70 years in terms of American foreign policy.
KELLY: I want to ask about the lack of congressional authorization for this Venezuela attack. Now, Secretary of State Rubio maintains this was not, in fact, an attack. This was a law enforcement operation, and therefore no congressional authorization was needed. Do you buy that?
WARNER: No, I don't. You know, I worked well with Secretary Rubio. We were good partners when he was on the Intel Committee. And he did - let me be clear - he did try to reach me after the strike had started. We didn't connect, but he did try to reach me. But the idea that somehow this was a law enforcement action, it doesn't pass the smell test. We had a whole fleet off the coast of Venezuela. When you send in the Delta Force, our top military operatives, into a nation-state to extract their leader, that is not a law enforcement action. And I don't know how we can credibly make that case.
KELLY: And when President Trump is threatening that there will be additional action if Venezuela doesn't cooperate going forward, you would argue congressional authorization will be needed for that?
WARNER: I would say, of course, there needs to be. And Senator Kaine will have a war powers resolution on Venezuela up this...
KELLY: This is your colleague, Senator Tim Kaine.
WARNER: Yes.
KELLY: Yep.
WARNER: I will vote for that. I'm sure most of the - all of the Democrats will vote for it. And the question I have, you know, in terms of congressional oversight, it only works if it's truly bipartisan. And I had so many of my Republican colleagues, particularly in the last few weeks after the elections in Virginia, New Jersey and New York City, start to say, well, you know, they maybe willing to speak up more. It'll be very curious to see whether my Republican friends are going to simply continue to write a blank check to this president to take this kind of really significant action without any approval or even prewarning to Congress.
KELLY: Stay with that. Senator Kaine, who you mentioned, has tried to get this war powers resolution passed in past. He's not been able to do so 'cause he doesn't have Republican votes. You would need four. Do you see any sign that your Republican colleagues are likely to line up in blocking the president when they have not done so very often at all in the last year?
WARNER: It is - it's a new year, and hope springs eternal. But if I'm laying a wager, I'm not sure. But it's - the question is, what kind of action is going to finally spur them into activity?
KELLY: One more question for you, Senator Warner, and it has to do with the overarching goal here. We were told - Americans were told - for months that the U.S. military buildup off the coast of Venezuela was about drugs, that this was about protecting Americans by fighting drug trafficking. President Trump didn't mention drugs very often in his address from Mar-a-Lago over the weekend. He now seems to be focused on oil. Is it clear to you from your perch in the U.S. Senate what the U.S. endgame is?
WARNER: It is not clear to me. And matter of fact, if you look at the indictment of Maduro, out of the Southern District of New York, it doesn't even mention fentanyl at all, which is, again, the drug that is doing the most damage in our country. I think, unfortunately, this is about oil. I think this was ill-advised. I don't think there was a real plan. I do think our military executed brilliantly, and Maduro off the stage is good. But, you know, if we really want a collaborative relationship with Venezuela - which we had for many, many decades - we also ought to be interested in the welfare of the Venezuelan people. And this does not bode well for us. It doesn't bode well for the Venezuelans. It doesn't bode well for regional stability.
KELLY: Virginia Democrat Mark Warner. Senator, thank you.
WARNER: Thank you.
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