SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
President Trump has his tariff pen out and ready for action. After pausing the sweeping new tariff regimen he announced on April 2, Trump issued a number of letters this week to announce import taxes to be collected starting in August. NPR's Ron Elving joins us. Ron, thanks for being with us.
RON ELVING, BYLINE: Good to be with you, Scott.
SIMON: After two dozen countries - about two dozen countries affected by these letters, which are being described as tariff threats, do you think these levies will actually happen August 1?
ELVING: No one's going to be surprised to see the numbers change or the deadline slip. The numbers are eye-catching - 35% for Canada, 50% for Brazil - but getting attention may well be what they're for. More pose than policy. If there's one thing we've learned about Trump's attitude toward tariffs, it's that he uses these scary percentages and looming deadlines as negotiating tools. Ultimately, the point of this is to force every other country around the world to pay for more access to the U.S. market. Trump sees that as a financial windfall and the gateway to a new era of U.S. dominance in the world.
SIMON: When the president first announced new tariffs, he said they were necessary because of several national emergencies. Trade deficits, for one. The supply of fentanyl, illegal border crossings for another. But this week, he targeted Brazil, with which America has a good surplus, and he blamed the prosecution of former President Bolsonaro. What's the story here?
ELVING: The story with Bolsonaro goes back to when he and Trump were both in power and finding they had a lot in common on many subjects. Then Trump was voted out of office in 2020, Bolsonaro in 2022. But the Brazilian resisted leaving office and tried to get the election results annulled. Trump may have empathized with that and supported him in those efforts at the time. And this week, he made specific reference to it in announcing the new tariff (ph) and denouncing the current government there for its treatment of Bolsonaro.
SIMON: The president is also increasing the pressure on the Federal Reserve. But this happens at the same time, Ron, that Trump and associates are saying that the American economy is the envy of the world, which would seem to imply the Fed is fulfilling its economic responsibilities quite well of restraining inflation and fostering employment.
ELVING: Well, that's surely how Federal Reserve Board Chairman Jerome Powell seems to see it. Inflation is not much over the 2% target. Unemployment is also comparatively low by historic standards. But Trump has made it clear he wants more, more than that. He wants to weigh in as president on interest rates and exercise more control generally over the pace of economic growth.
SIMON: And Ron, I'd like to draw you out a bit on some very interesting new data from Gallup this week on the issue of immigration. How do you read these numbers?
ELVING: They're stunning, really. Immigration has receded dramatically as an issue for most Americans. The sense from last year of an influx of new arrivals getting out of control has largely dissipated. Just 30% told the pollsters they wanted to see immigration decrease - decrease. Last year, Gallup found 55% - almost twice that many - saying that. In fact, this latest Gallup says 79% of Americans - 4 out of 5 - saw immigration as a good thing for the country.
Now, Scott, that's a record high in the Gallup, and it includes 2 out of 3 Republicans. So in one sense, that should be a remarkable feather in the cap for the Trump administration. Their efforts to control the border and relieve the anxieties voters were feeling a year ago, those efforts would seem quite successful. But at the same time, a softening of public attitudes on immigration could make it harder for the administration to pursue its aggressive goals of detention and mass deportation in the months ahead.
Now, the drive to take people into custody who might be undocumented has been generating a lot of pushback, both in the courts and in the streets. Just last night, a federal judge in Los Angeles ordered the Trump administration to stop what she called the indiscriminate detention of people on the basis of little more than skin color or accent or doing work commonly done by immigrants. The Gallup poll also found increasing public concern about where this policy goes from here and what impact it may have on the economy in general.
SIMON: NPR's senior contributor Ron Elving. Thanks so much.
ELVING: Thank you, Scott. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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